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Did you ever try to use the power of the Justice Department to influence the situation or level the playing field?
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Leo Cardenas
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
One of the pluses and minuses of working for the US Department
of Justice, particularly with anything that has the potential for violence, is that they will listen to
you. Some assumptions are made that by coming from the Department of Justice, we will
bring in law enforcement, or some type of adjudication. And needless to say, we do not say
that we will not do these things, because if that is the only resolution, we'll go to those resources.
So we're able to get a lot of information from them with that particular handle. On the other
hand, if you go to the minority community
and the US department of Justice is the focus, they immediately say, "You're the F.B.I.," or
nowadays, "You're INS." They clam up and inevitably, someone within the group will actually
make an issue of the fact that we're from the Department of Justice, so we have to overcome
those things. If that is the issue, and it's visible to us that whoever has brought it up has
predominated for the time being, we'll leave the meeting. Then we'll
call other individuals and meet with them separately and work our way back into the dispute.
Leo Cardenas
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
We also constantly remind our people that
despite the fact that we sort of pick and choose when we wanted to be the US Department of
Justice and when we wanted to be CRS, that at all times we were representing the US
Department of Justice and that there was no way to shed that. If it came down to it, we can say,
"Well, I'm not Department of Justice, I'm actually CRS." But it's only emphasized by ourselves.
If you approach it from a professional point of view, that you're working on a case and you
accept the fact that initially the venting is going to be with you and that's all it is, including
name-calling, then you can live with it. The other thing we always recommend, is that when the
emotions get super-high, of course, call for a caucus. If it gets even worse, get to a telephone,
and call the regional director, vent with me, and tell me all the things that are going wrong and
I'll
listen and do whatever I need to do.
Dick Salem
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
Very often when talking to establishment officials I would start at
the top with my Justice Department credentials to get their attention and worry them a bit. They
seldom want the Justice Department to come into their school, police department or community.
Many people with grievances do, but no public official wants anyone from the Justice
Department coming in. So we don't say this is a Community Relations Service mediator
governed by a confidentially clause. We say, "this is the Justice Department.”
So, we would have to be careful in determining who to call first and let them know we
are coming in.
Dick Salem
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
C.J. was unable to get into Flint until the next
morning. It turned out that the police chief was on vacation, his assistant chief was in control
and clearly couldn’t control what was happening. I called the assistant chief at 4 p.m. and said,
"Mr. Walker is coming to Flint and should be there this evening. If he gets there in time, he’ll
call you and let you know he’s in town. But he’ll definitely call you in the morning.” I knew
C.J. wouldn’t be there until the morning but I wanted police to think the Justice Department
was on their back that night. I don’t know whether it worked or not. This was a case where our
first concern was getting somebody on the scene or at least to have the police chief think
somebody from outside was there observing. Once we confirmed the likelihood of police
violating the rights of citizens in the black community again that night, we did not need a further
assessment to know we had to be there.
Dick Salem
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
Answer:
As I said, public officials seldom want the Justice Department to
come in. The school superintendent has a contract coming up in two months, he doesn’t want
the Justice Department in there saying to the world that he can’t handle his job.
Question:
But does he tell you that he doesn’t want you in there?
Answer:
Well, you can read it pretty quickly. He may not say, "stay away," but he conveys the
message. Mayors of big cities seldom want the federal government intervening in local racial
conflicts involving police or schools. They want to believe they have the resources to handle it.
Sheriffs, as you know, are elected at the county level and not subject to the dictates of governors,
state legislatures, congressmen, presidents. Sheriffs run their own fiefdoms in rural areas; they
are often a political force in the county. During one period, we were having trouble gaining
cooperation from sheriffs in Ohio. They did not want CRS involved, and we could make no
headway. Within the year, the Justice Department, unbeknownst to us, indicted about twenty
sheriffs in Ohio, for embezzlement, gambling or some other felonies. Each case was separate.
No wonder they didn’t want the Justice Department in their counties, even CRS. Sometimes
people don’t want us, but they know that they have to have us, because they have no choice.
We don’t need anybody’s permission to intervene.
An untoward police act, people protesting, major protests in the city, the police chief doesn’t
have it under full control, the police commissioner or mayor had to do something. Again, he may
not want us, but he knows something has to happen and maybe we can help. So he works with
us.
We worked in Cairo, Illinois, which is closer to Birmingham, Alabama
than Chicago. Nobody in the establishment wanted us, as there was blatant discrimination going
on. The city lost every case in the courts over the years, but they dragged it out. The political
establishment did everything it could to resist change. It was a black/white issue, straight up. At
times there was violence, at times it was more subtle. The public officials often refused to talk to
us. I remember the Chicago office of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission,
wanted to hold a meeting down there, so we worked with them. It was a request they made in
conjunction with local black leaders and I couldn’t say no. So we scheduled a meeting, and the
governor’s office sent some people in. City officials, the county officials, the sheriff’s office
all refused to show up. They knew we were sitting around a table. And there I am, and there’s
the Civil Rights Commission, which also has no enforcement power. The governor’s people
flew in on a private plane. But the other chairs were empty because they just wouldn’t come.
So no, they didn’t want us.
| Martin Walsh
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
Now because of being with Justice, I think we
can get to first base. Very few if any people, I can't recall anyone, outright say, "No, I am not
going to meet with you."
Stephen Thom
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
So we go in and
intervene and say, "Wait a minute. Stop! What are you doing?" We could tell by his behavior
that he was a non-compromising skill kind of guy who was going to get his way, or else. I said,
"I want to see your supervisor." So we had to flash our DOJ identification, tell him who we are,
tell them what we're about and say, "We need to see your supervisor. You don't need to talk to
these people."
| Bob Ensley
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
But you've got to realize that this is their
problem
and the only lasting resolution will be one that the people who live in the community agree to.
We can say this is what the Department of Justice has decided to
do, but it's only going to hold for so long as we're there. But if they
come to an agreement on their own and begin to realize this is their problem, then you can feel a
little more comfortable with leaving and saying, "I'll be back."
Efrain Martinez
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
I can't
just go up and say, "Hey, I'm from the government and I'm here to help
you," you know that old line. When you walk into a sheriff's
office let's say, you walk differently. Wear my other boots, the
ones that make a sound, they're more like semi cowboy boots, wear
my suit, pinstripe probably, blue tie, walk in there like you belong.
Take a different position, ask some tough questions,
but in a very friendly manner, and at some point they'll know
you're not there to investigate them. You're not there to
prosecute them, you're not there to do them harm so that they have to
watch out and look out and be careful what they tell you. The
more comfortable they feel with you, the more they'll tell you.
That's the only way to help them because you have to understand
their reality. Their reality from their point of view. That's the
only way you can understand them, to try to help them resolve their own problems.
Efrain Martinez
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
I've been
asked to stay, for example, at a reservation once. It was the
agency of the opposition leaders that felt that our presence
there was hindering what he wanted to do. But according to the
opposition what had been happening was a lot of violence and
criminal acts committed against the opposition, so they felt
that our presence would maybe stabilize the situation and curb
those violent acts against them. So the leader of the
opposition felt that our presence there was right.
We told the leader we were trying to help, and we'd be consulting with him on a
regular basis so he would know what we were doing, and how our
presence there would be benefiting everybody. We kind of left
it at that. I wouldn't have agreed if we'd been insistent and
some definitive action had been taken to remove us from there.
Then we would have him talk to our authorities and see what was
the best thing to do. And it might have been that it was those
particular CRS people there that he didn't like. We could send
another team. But no, it went well, perhaps maybe he engaged in
other activities that were more pressing to him.
| Angel Alderete
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
With the Youth Authority and the
Department of Corrections, my hand was equal to theirs. I could kind of carry that, even though
they would tell me, "Oh, you think you're a baby."
Efrain Martinez
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
The Hispanic lawyer showed up and he
didn't want to work with us, he didn't want us involved. I sat
down with him, said, "Look, you don't like the present administration, and
there's some things I don't like about the administration myself. The political winds in
Washington change every four years. It goes in one direction,
then another, and yet the people are still here. You're still
here and I'm still here, so why don't you and I work together to
help these people here the best that we can help them in this
current situation? Let the administration do whatever, I know
you have strong feelings about that, but let's think about these
people here. Let's see how you can help them and I can help them
and maybe we can help them even more if we both work together."
So we did that and they and the D.A. finally worked a deal where they got a new
prosecutor.
Will Reed
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
Yes, we did. After all, you know, we were a
part of the Justice
Department so we could do what we wanted. On those rare occasions where that happened, there
might
have been more groups or individuals who didn't want you there, but they didn't express it. So
they sort of
went along with things. It was pretty much like somebody saying, "The FBI's coming. Nobody
turns down
the Justice Department. They don't say, "We don't want you here." Very few people will do that.
But the
times when that happened, you found that you just went in anyway and determined whether or
not there
was a role for you to play. And if there was a role for you to play, you began to play it.
Will Reed
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
You couldn't go in forcing yourself on
anybody. I
don't care who you were with, whether you were with Justice Department, FBI, anybody.
People know when you are a phony. Lots of these people out in the field who are fighting
for an
issue are more sophisticated than you are, or as sophisticated. So you
never go in
with the idea that since you are a trained mediator, that you're going to be able to snow somebody
about
your level of expertise or competence or anything else. The key to all of this is being yourself.
People will
see that, for the most part. And when they do see that, they're more willing to trust you. But
when you go
in and try to let them think that you have some special knowledge, which you may have, it won't
work.
They're going to have to conclude that you have that special knowledge on their own. You can't
convey
the message to them that, "Oh. I'm special." Because all that does is turn them off.
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